Cory & Tracy taught…look at the product of the principles. We didn’t have much money. We just struggled along like you are doing. If you apply the principles, that’s the final product. Sometimes they don’t get it until they get their first child because now they are responsible.
What did you learn?
Class member: Last week when we talked about morality, we talked about teaching the birds and the bees with chickens. We were sitting at dinner and this question arises. Our 7 year old started asking questions. My 9 year old would say I know the answer to this one. We used the chickens. Can a rooster have an egg? It went really well. It went on for 1 ½ hour on their level.
Class member: Do the chickens marry? Most animals do not mate for life. Some animals do. We mate for life. That’s the Lord’s plan. Tell them the truth.
Class member: I have 3 boys and appreciated hearing morality from a boy’s perspective.
Class member: I appreciated Cory’s reminder about being specific and not speaking in general remarks. My daughter is 13 and in 8th grade and 2 of her good friends have decided they are going to be in a lesbian relationship. It was good to just be able to ask specific questions with her. It was good to talk to her about that. I talked to her about the church’s stand. Satan has made that “ok” and now he is tricking them into thinking about that.
Class member: I wasn’t here last week, but a spin off of what she is saying, I feel like in our culture most of us were not raised with parents that were not specific. We knew we needed to be pure and temple worthy. My sister called me 8 years ago and you would not believe what my bishop announced today over the pulpit. Have you ever heard the term “soaking”. We think we can push the limit of morality and “penetrate”, but don’t climax and they are still a virgin. That is at BYU-Provo.
Class member: My parents weren’t really specific with me, in high school kissing is something we joke about. You don’t know what happens between kissing and intercourse “Celestial Dating Rules” by Bruce Satterfield…17 rules. It lays it all out.
Class member: “Balancing Truth & Tolerance” in the Ensign last month. As our society has shifted and changed so have our morals, even in Mormon culture. I needed to make sure that I sit down with my husband and we set very clear rules for our family.
Our society as a culture has become so desensitized to morality. Elder Cook “Can Ye Feel So Now?” ….talks about interview with 15 year old boy, tobacco, drugs, all of these Word of Wisdom things we have said for years the world now is proving that they are bad. We have the church saying don’t do it, but now we have society saying this is bad. When they are tempted it’s easier to say “No”. Morality on the other hand is exactly the opposite. Parents and church are say “no” and the world is saying “yes”.
We adults are so desensitized over right and wrong that we are not standing as an example of limits. We are allowing so much to come in and then saying we don’t do it. Things you watch. Music you listen to. Amounts of times spent in those things. We aren’t setting strict limits. We are desensitizing them! We are saying there is a whole bund of stuff that isn’t good, but…. Sin is sin. The Lord’s definition of sin is still the same. We are becoming more complacent. They are more apparent. You look at billboards, ads on TV…they are Porn.
Our children need to know more than “keep yourself morally clean and go to the temple”. They need specifics.
In the warnings that we give, when I say be specific, some people interpret that as use exact names, be precise. I’m not saying not to do that. What I am saying is in doing that sometimes we become too casual. In trying to make it something we can talk about we make it too every day. This is not every day. This is sacred. It needs to be talked about in the respect of sacred things.
Class member: Where is the line of bringing morality in and overstepping the parent’s bounds? I think Cory’s talk would have been great in any Laurel/Priests, Teachers/Miamaids groups. Be careful with Beehives/Deacons. 14+ you had better be talking in specifics. Cory said if you don’t teach them the TV will.
Class member: Just coming out of high school. Those boundaries are just not there any more. They don’t have to ask your permission to show clipped “R” movies. Specifically how do you get out of those situations. What do you say. One of my friends says, “In one night I can become exactly like you, but you can never become like me.”
We teach from the Spirit in the positives. We don’t teach to terrify. You teach from the doctrine of the family. You teach from true principles. Teaching them what to say that is teaching from the positives. We need to fortify them.
Class member: Teaching from the positives…it’s important to make sure that we don’t come across as judgmental or better than someone else. How can we teach in a way that doesn’t say we are “better than you”.
Keep in mind the “Rameumpton”
This topic is slippery territory. Yes we have to teach respect and tolerance, but we have been so focused on teaching that way, that we’ve taught them to tolerate the sin.
Seminary class back east…teaching Morality…the girl walked out. We have to teach correct doctrine. If it means offending man or God, who are you going to offend? We don’t want to offend anyone. The Lord’s plan is in concrete.
Return missionary fell away from the church because she quit praying, quit reading the Book of Mormon, and started criticizing leaders of the church. She had some gay friends, and she became angry because of what the church says.
Married in the temple, a return missionary, after 12 years decided he was going to take a different stand. The law says he has a right to have those boys and he has his “friend” there and he is on drugs. What do you do?
You have to know where you stand. Then the Lord will teach you how to teach from where you stand.
You need to evaluate where are you on morality.
Class member: I loved Tracy’s self esteem lesson. I think that’s helped my parenting with my oldest. Everyone needs to feel like they belong. I feel like I am more aware of my parenting since I have been taking this class. It has helped me be more calm with them. Prayers in the morning have changed how I talk to them.
Class member: When Cory was here last week he had written down what Satan is throwing at our kids just today. The weight the heaviness I could feel. Then feel the difference between that and the Spirit. Do you see this stuff at school? They started giving her examples.
Class member: I had an interesting experience this week, my daughter is in middle school and her class has been talking about different religions. There are about 8 kids that are LDS and then a bunch of others. They asked a panel of us to come in. She asked me if I could come in and speak about what Mormon’s believe. There was a Catholic, Protestant and then me. We had 3 minutes to talk about origin, lifestyle, etc. It was interesting to listen and respect what they had to say. They were trying to reconcile and understand the mystery of the plan. As they are trying to tell the kids about it. The confusion that was there was incredible. As I had the opportunity to bear witness where we take our truth and this is where we differ and talk about apostasy and Joseph Smith seeing God and Jesus Christ. We are spirit sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father. I was given the words because you can’t do that in 3 minutes and be precise in 3 minutes. My prayer was that this was just something that they would hear and understand and what they need. The Lord was able to use her to help them feel something they had never felt before. The spirit came when I spoke truth. It is not just something we learn. This is our Father’s Plan, not just for Mormon’s for everyone. For all of his children. Our children need to be armed with that. They need to “know” and be able to testify and know how to share that testimony without starting out “I have a testimony”. They need to have a conviction. The Lord will use experiences to help touch others about that.
Discipline (Part 1)
What handbooks did you have when you were expecting? Your growing up experience.
You think I’m not going to parent you like my mother did. When they are 2 and start throwing a fit and then you sound just like your mother. The reason is not because you think it’s going to be that effective, but you don’t know anything else. A good mother does something so you do what was done to you. Some of you will say my parents were so strict I couldn’t move a muscle without getting after you. Or you think because they were so strict you become permissive.
Your kids are dancing on the table throwing rice. It can be cleaned up, but you are not teaching respect.
I was raised with guilt and criticism. With your blue children if you can make them feel guilty enough they will jump. When they leave home they are carrying a lot of emotional baggage. Some of you are carrying that baggage. Some of you feel like you are never good enough. You feel that Heavenly Father is just not quite pleased with you. A lot of those feelings come with how you were disciplined as a child.
“Children look to their parents to identify their relationship with Heavenly Father.” That is where they get those first feelings. You correct their bad behavior. “Stop hitting” “Clean your room.” “Stop teasing” “You didn’t feed the dog” Our training comes from calling attention to everything they have done wrong and throwing in a consequence. We are refereeing them.
Referee: They look for mistakes, throw the flag, and give a consequence. We think we are teaching them how to act correctly. In that process we are missing something.
Who can tell me what spirituality is?
- Continual feeling of the spirit.
- A relationship with our Heavenly Father.
- It’s knowing who you are, where you came from, and where you are going.
- How much we are like the Savior.
- Can measure it by your desire to do the things that invite the Spirit.
- Eternal perspective
How do you treat your children when they misbehave? What is the definition and purpose of punishment?
- To stop a behavior.
- To change a behavior
- Help them think about why what they did was incorrect.
- It really bothers me.
- To teach
What is discipline? Is it the same thing?
Teaching with exactness
Teaching that principle separate of that moment. To come back another time fresh and teach the principle in that moment from a positive place.
Discipline and disciple have the same root…it’s someone that follows someone else…they are not coherse. It’s their choice. Discipline should be a way we can help our children to want to behave a certain way.
Training…showing them what to do. Stop and listen. Think of the Savior. He took time when he was training and teaching. There was a connection and understanding. Taking a time that was needed in a way it was needed for that person.
Joseph Smith “Teach them correct principles so they can govern themselves.”
Boyd K. Packer “Little Children” “True doctrine, understood, changes attitudes and behavior. The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior. Preoccupation with unworthy behavior can lead to unworthy behavior. That is why we stress so forcefully the study of the doctrines of the gospel.”
Which will change behavior faster…understanding Doctrine of the family or study of behavior.
“I’m so sick of you guys fighting. All you do is fight.”
Who is part of their problem? You!
I want you to change your perspective on changing their behavior. What we say out of our mouth and what we do as parents are not necessarily the same. We say, “I am going to punish you to get you to stop fighting.” But as we sit in here we say, “Discipline is teaching us to follow Christ”. We have to mesh the two. It doesn’t mean no punishment. The Lord links it with us. There is only one straight and narrow way to get into the kingdom. He will do everything he can to help us, but we have to do our part too.
One of the elements of Spirituality is the ability to overcome the natural man so we can become like Christ. The purpose of discipline is to teach our children to overcome the natural man so they can become like Christ.
His mission was totally dedicated to others. The natural man is dedicated to themselves. What do your children fight about? Themselves. It’s about them. The bottom line is “I want, what I want, and I want it now!!!”
President Uchtdorf “Continue in Paience”
“In the 1960s, a professor at Stanford University began a modest experiment testing the willpower of four-year-old children. He placed before them a large marshmallow and then told them they could eat it right away or, if they waited for 15 minutes, they could have two marshmallows.
He then left the children alone and watched what happened behind a two-way mirror. Some of the children ate the marshmallow immediately; some could wait only a few minutes before giving in to temptation. Only 30 percent were able to wait.
It was a mildly interesting experiment, and the professor moved on to other areas of research, for, in his own words, “there are only so many things you can do with kids trying not to eat marshmallows.” But as time went on, he kept track of the children and began to notice an interesting correlation: the children who could not wait struggled later in life and had more behavioral problems, while those who waited tended to be more positive and better motivated, have higher grades and incomes, and have healthier relationships.
What started as a simple experiment with children and marshmallows became a landmark study suggesting that the ability to wait—to be patient—was a key character trait that might predict later success in life.”
70% struggled to wait. The key is self-gratification. Can you delay or do you need it immediately!
Why French Parents are Better Than American Parents
When I asked French parents how they disciplined their children, it took them a few beats just to understand what I meant. "Ah, you mean how do we educate them?" they asked. "Discipline," I soon realized, is a narrow, seldom-used notion that deals with punishment. Whereas "educating" (which has nothing to do with school) is something they imagined themselves to be doing all the time.
One of the keys to this education is the simple act of learning how to wait. It is why the French babies I meet mostly sleep through the night from two or three months old. Their parents don't pick them up the second they start crying, allowing the babies to learn how to fall back asleep. It is also why French toddlers will sit happily at a restaurant. Rather than snacking all day like American children, they mostly have to wait until mealtime to eat. (French kids consistently have three meals a day and one snack around 4 p.m.)
10 years old…iron all the white shirts for his brothers…7 kids in the family. 12 year old daughter iron’s Dad’s white shirt. Their Mom homeschools…she has the kids home all the time. In talking to her about it, they have no TV, no electronics, they have a computer. Only the Mom has the password. They have school in the morning, but the afternoon they are to be self entertained…read books, crochet, research project…we tend to be “American Parents” and hover/helicopter parents.
“I’m bored.” “Let me find you something to do.” Our children become dependent on being entertained. Someone else fulfilling their needs. They aren’t learning any self control. Their control through our discipline tends to be external control. We want to teach them internal control.
Granddaughter went to college and now it’s up to her if she goes to church, when she goes to bed, when she gets up. By the time our children leave our home they need to be self governing…finances, cook, all responsibilities, testimony. They are waiting for someone to come take care of them. Part of discipline is to teach them to be self sufficient. Discipline is giving them the tools to learn to do what is right instead of what feels good.
“Raising Resilient Children” Ensign March 2013
They have to be self motivated. No one is going to be in their home to say, “Let’s have FHE.” We need to stop just imposing on them to do hard things. We need to teach them to think and come up with their own action. It has everything to do with discipline. Are they thinking through their behavior and coming up with their own plan.
Depression is the #1 reason they come home. They don’t have their electronics and they don’t have Mom there.
Class member: 2 weeks ago I was at Costco with husband and 2 little ones. Watched the little girl was 4 years old and the Mom put her hand up and the little girl just stopped and didn’t say anything. The guy went barreling through with the cart and would have hit her. If I had done that…she would have kept right on going and said what do I need to stop for. The Mom didn’t have to yell at her or anything.
Daughter has one child that is a chatterbox. She is right in your face all the time. She said to her daughter this is an adult party and you are not to take her sisters to play with you. We will all eat together and then you need to go down to the playroom to play. Perfect teaching of manners. Done in love. Immediately this one said can you come down to the playroom and let me show you something. Afterwards… “I told her…immediately you should have gone over to her and said, remember what we talked about.” Teaching isn’t telling them one time and thinking they get it.
This week think about the action line.
Example: Children are in the family room watching TV…you want them to help you get ready to eat. You say, “Dad’s coming home, let’s turn off the TV and get the table set.” You are at Level “O”. We think if we do it with a little more volume and emotion. Now we do it louder. Another 10 minutes pass. Where is your emotional level? “You kids get down here. I’m tired of telling you to get down here. When I tell you the first time you get down here.” You go upstairs yelling and turn off the TV. The next day you call your Mom you say, “I don’t know what the problem is. They don’t do anything unless I yell at them. They just won’t obey if I yell.” It’s the children’s problem. Children are taught…we have taught our children to be disobedient. They know through conditioning that when your voice is soft you aren’t going to do anything. They still have 15 more minutes of the TV to watch. When you are yelling and stomping up the stairs they are on their way down.
You think what is causing them to move is you yelling, when in reality what is causing them to move is your action. You aren’t ready to do anything until the 3rd time through. Your children respond to your actions. If you move the action line down to “O” then you are teaching them to obey with exactness.
Example: When you say it the first time and then go upstairs and stand in front of the TV and turn it off they will come. You are reconditioning them that when you say something I am going to do it now.
You have to be careful particularly when you are pregnant that you are going to follow through.
Example: You are preparing a lesson. They ask you for something you tell them to wait. They say, “Mom will you come get the crayons?” I just need to finish the lesson. Then you get the crayons. To begin with you said…wait, but then you have accommodated them every time.
We have to decide what we want to teach. I will teach you how to teach it next week.
#1 need for children is to feel like they belong to the family #2 they have an important part. They want to feel like they can contribute with value. #3 they want to feel like they are important as an individual. When one of these goals is not being met “according to the child” (his truth is the truth). If he doesn’t feel loved that is his truth. They act on their truth only! When a child is young they get discouraged when those core needs are not being met. They are emotionally hurting. A discouraged child is a misbehaving child. Don’t let it govern you with self pity. It just helps you understand.
When a child feels like he is not individually loved…that child’s self value is down the drain and begins to act out. She is seeking undo attention. It is this constant talking to you….always talking to you…. “Grandma, guess what?” The seeking of undo attention/ temper tantrums can be attention
Read in the syllabus about different levels of discouragement in your children. It lists how you will feel and what they do to get your attention.
Level 1: Undo attention—Your feeling is annoyance—their behavior will temporarily stop.
Child bangs on the tray of high chair. You turn around and tell them to stop. It stops. They only feel valuable if you are interacting with them.
Level 2: Power Struggles—They will fight. When they are in a power struggle, you are mad and you are going to show who is the boss. As their power increases your feeling is I’m going to break you. You are going to do it my way. We get way into punishment.
Level 3: Revenge
After teenage years our children misbehave for different reasons…
- The thrill
- Peer Pressure
Their reasons change when they are older.
When you correct misbehavior, look at see what is in your heart. Just stop and see what you are feeling. Are you mad? Is your motive that you really want to teach them to behave differently. Most of us are into “You will do it my way.” I want you to know where you are at. What does it do to you? We aren’t changing them this week.
Remember how the Lord parents.
Don’t get frustrated this week. I will give you the tools next week.